rare coin wholesalers
william swoger, plaintiff–appellant, v. rare coin wholesalers; steven l. contursi; donald kagin, defendants–appellees .
founded in 2001, rare coin wholesalers has transacted over $ 2 billion in u. s. rare coin business and is a recognized leader in acquiring, managing, and selling u. s. rare coins positioned for wealth preservation and capital growth .
after holding executive positions and founding several prominent rare coin and precious metals companies, steve founded s. l. contursi, inc. in 1991 and 10 years later founded the rare coin wholesalers division in 2001. combining his management skills and numismatic expertise, steve and his family have built one of the country’s most well respected rare coin firms, which serves as a resource for the industry and custodian of many of our national treasures .
while there are some wholesalers who will quote a retail price to a collector and a wholesale price for the same coin to other dealers, other coin - wholesalers will quote wholesale prices to everyone. this would not be unusual at a major coin show, though i am certainly not suggesting that collectors buy from the wholesalers, who (like auction cataloguers) will often not disclose many of the positive and negative aspects of coins being offered .
rare coin wholesalers is in a class of its own. very professional their staff is highly educated to answer any questions. i attended a seminar in vegas called the
money show
and had signed up to be contacted on their list. i' m always leery about investments with any new companies. after meeting with steve contursi and his hearing / reading about his reputation made me very comfortable to do business with them. i look forward to a profitable 2014. thank you rare coin wholesalers .
plaintiff–appellant william swoger appeals from the district court' s grant of summary judgment in favor of defendants–appellees rare coin wholesalers, steven l. contursi, and donald kagin (collectively, appellees). appellees owned a rare coin known as a “brasher doubloon. ” swoger offered to sell appellees information that would prove that their coin was the first legal - tender coin struck pursuant to an act of congress. swoger divulged the information, but appellees refused to pay him, and swoger filed suit .
i will sell in bulk to wholesalers alot becauase it is fast and easy money. i also buy from wholesalers alot too. i can call a cpl folks i deal with and order a cpl rolls of semikeys and get them right .
i do not think so. most trading at major coin shows is dealer - to - dealer. retail - dealers often buy or receive coins' on memo' from wholesalers .
it was an extraordinary week for rare coins and stamps, with two of the world’s most valuable specimens being sold within days of each other .
the fact that any able member of the general public can buy from some wholesalers at major coin shows does not affect the reality that a wholesale price is a wholesale price, below a level that multiple collectors somewhere would be willing to spend for the same coin .
awesome inventory, fair prices, honest dealing. this family owned and operated business is the premier rare coin dealer in the u. s. i have purchased from them for over eight years, and i recommend them without reservation !
based in laguna beach and napa, california, steven l. contursi has built rare coin wholesalers’ foundation on the values of integrity, honesty and hard work. it all started when steve was a paperboy who helped support his single mother while using the remainder of his proceeds to collect coins. this early childhood hobby fueled steve’s passion for owning a tangible piece of american history. as a teenager, steve learned how to arbitrage professional coin dealers in the bronx, where he grew up. numismatics may not be rocket science, but holding a degree in physics helps steve focus on the crucial small details that can make a huge difference in rare coins. after having been honored as the graduating college physics student with the highest academic achievement, steve then attended the university of minnesota graduate school while moonlighting at a coin shop. deciding that his future should involve numismatics rather than newton’s laws, steve borrowed $ 5, 000 and opened his own coin shop in a minneapolis suburb in 1975. since then he has parlayed his childhood hobby into one of the most well - respected rare coin firms in the world .
in july 2015 in baltimore. this coin had a sticker of approval from cac .
$ 7. 85 million for u. s. coin, and extra for a stamp
if you are really going to make it in the coin business and stay in it for a long time, then your reputation means everything. if you are honest in your dealings, the word will get out and you will do much, much more business than the dishonest coin dealers. also, purchasing coins in lots such as acquiring entire accumulations such as a collector' s collection or estate collections seem to be a large part of the money makers for many coin dealers that i know. these are sometimes the purchases that contain rare key date or rare variety / error coins that are usually just thrown into a box with a bunch of other coins and have been long overlooked. also, many of the coin dealers that i know, have collectors and / or other coin dealers already lined up to purchase these accumulations or collections even before they actually make the purchase thus preventing the long - term tieing up of funds needed for other purchases .
“usually, you do not really know why a coin sells for a price at auction, ” albanese states. “it could have been in an old [ pcgs or ngc ] holder and be bought just to upgrade. a dealer who is getting his 5% commission may push a collector to buy a coin so the [ dealer - agent ] gets paid. a coin may also bring too low a price at auction if only wholesalers, not collectors or retailers, bid on it. i [ john ] do not rely on auction prices. auction records are number four on my list of sources to price a coin. ”
# 2 websites and coin shops cost $ $ also. website maintenance fees, coin store rent, bills, payroll for employees, time invested, shipping, ebay fees, auction house cuts ect .
i' ve contemplated on opening a coin shop or website, but quite frankly i don' t know how coin dealers make a living. if these are secrets of the trade then let them be .
in terms of the definitions of luster employed by coin collectors, proofs have little or zero luster. when a coin is struck, metal flows literally during the extremely short time while the dies are imparting design elements on the hot blank circular piece of metal (planchet) that is being transformed into a coin .
this is a really interesting thread. thanks. i often wonder how my local coin dealer makes it .
so how do you coin dealers keep your head above the water without drowning? if you buy a $ 2000. 00 coin from heritage and sell it $ 2100. 00 for it you probabally lost $ $ .
each of swoger' s claims for relief depended upon the accuracy of his assertion that he had provided to appellees proof that their coin was the first legal - tender gold coin struck pursuant to an act of congress. for example, in his claim for quantum meruit, swoger alleged that he offered to “prove that [ their ] coin was indeed the first legal tender coin to be struck pursuant to an act of congress to circulate in the united states. ”
$ 7. 85 million for u. s. coin, and extra for a stamp - the new york times
with the headline: $ 7. 85 million for u. s. coin, and extra for a stamp .
© 2007 - 2018 certified coin exchange, inc.  privacy policy  information about our nasdaq traded parent collectors universe
daniel frank sedwick treasure, world, u. s. coin and paper money auction # 21 goes live may 3
ephraim brasher was a goldsmith in late eighteenth - century new york. he minted several coins known as brasher doubloons, which command a high price in today' s numismatic market. all brasher doubloons display an eagle on one side of the coin, but one such coin differs from all the others in that brasher countermarked his initials on the breast of the eagle rather than on its wing. that coin, formerly owned by appellees, is the subject of this case. the parties agree that swoger is an expert concerning coins like the brasher doubloons. in the course of his research, swoger became convinced that appellees' coin—the “punch on breast” brasher doubloon (coin) —was the first legal - tender coin in the united states .
# 3 continued. i understand that most coin shops have a
sell
and
buy
price. are there that many people selling coins for a lower cost than what they paid? if i purchased a coin today from my local coin shop and sold it the next day i would lose $ $. very few coin dealers will buy a coin back or or give you a trade in at the price you paid. i know aj does this and i' m pretty sure rick snow and the penny lady will honor returns and or trade - in' s but there are not many dealers like this .
westminster mint has offices in minneapolis, mn and madison, wi, but it also sells via the web at coin - rare. com. the website is not the most visually appealing, but westminster’s business record speaks for itself: it has an a + rating from the better business bureau. additionally, although it doesn’t have a great design, the urltoken website does have a lot of content, including a pictorial breakdown of how westminster mint makes its fine silver bars .
on summary judgment, appellees argued that each of swoger' s claims required him to prove that he had provided information proving that the coin was legal tender under the act, and that he had not done so. in opposition, swoger provided an affidavit explaining once again his theory that the coin “was the first legal tender gold coin struck pursuant to an act of congress to circulate in the united states. ”
coin shows. dealer to dealer wholesale transactions are dirt cheap. look at a greysheet some time and then try to get those prices .
i am looking at a coin in the current pcgs price guide that in ms - 65 has a stated value of $ 3, 900. 00 the subject coin in a ms 65 pcgs holder sold at two different 2017 fun auctions for $ 2, 585, $ 2, 703, and $ 2, 820. those were the complete sales of ms 65 pcgs coins for this particular coin in the january 2017 fun auctions .
you to click on the results of some very low auction prices. if coin is graded
unc. details
with a problem that results in a no grade, that coin is listed in the ms - 60 column. it is misleading if you don' t investigate the circumstances .
this phenomenon is hard to explain, and i am not completely certain that this specific coin really exhibits a ‘black & white’ glow, though it probably does. i have seen quite a few proof morgans and barber coins that are ‘black & white’ as this concept is defined by coin collectors .
with over $ 2 billion in united states rare coin transactions, steve has acquired, managed and sold the finest quality, historically significant coins. contursi made international headlines in march 2004 when he unveiled new evidence about “uncle sam’s first buck” at the american numismatic association’s headquarters. the neil / carter / contursi specimen 1794 flowing hair dollar is believed by many experts to be the very first silver dollar struck by the u. s. mint, a truly historic national treasure - a coin that represented an economic declaration of independence for the young united states. steve loaned his famous coin to the ana money museum in colorado where tens of thousands of visitors have viewed it there and on exhibits around the country until he sold it in may 2010 for a then - world record price of $ 7. 85 million .
coin dealers are right up there with used car salesmen and ambulance chasing lawyers. all three make their living by taking advantage of the other person .
@ northcoin said: i am looking at a coin in the current pcgs price guide that in ms - 65 has a stated value of $ 3, 900. 00 the subject coin in a ms 65 pcgs holder sold at two different 2017 fun auctions for $ 2, 585, $ 2, 703, and $ 2, 820. those were the complete sales of ms 65 pcgs coins for this particular coin in the january 2017 fun auctions .
“this is a national treasure, ” said the seller, steven l. contursi, a california coin dealer who has owned it since 2003. he has exhibited it at a museum in colorado and at collector events. the buyer, the cardinal collection educational foundation, is expected to continue publicizing the coin .
i desire to own a particular coin. i consult the price guide, enter a bid at auction and win the coin for 70% of the guide price. i pat myself on the back for being so shrewd. a couple months later i notice the guide has been adjusted to reflect (my) recent auction result, the only recent auction sale price available. i now own the coin at 100% of the (new) price guide level .
auction results are merely a snapshot at that moment in time with those participants that reflects their evaluation as to what they collectively were willing to pay. look at the coin that was auctioned and draw your own conclusions as to grade and quality and whether the hammer is reflective of the attributes of the coin .
it is supposedly based on average dealer asking price or as i love to call it ,
what a dealer wishes he could sell the coin for .
@ brycem said: i desire to own a particular coin. i consult the price guide, enter a bid at auction and win the coin for 70% of the guide price. i pat myself on the back for being so shrewd. a couple months later i notice the guide has been adjusted to reflect (my) recent auction result, the only recent auction sale price available. i now own the coin at 100% of the (new) price guide level .
on appeal, refining a theory he first advanced in response to summary judgment, swoger argues that whether the coin was legal tender is irrelevant. under this theory, because the coin was struck to conform to the weight specified in the act for spanish doubloons, using the gold from spanish doubloons, it “did not need to be weighed, and could be used in commerce as a $ 15 coin. ” the claims that swoger brought in his complaint, however, rely on the premise that he gave appellees information sufficient to prove that the coin was legal tender—not merely that it was commonly used as a store of value. that a coin was used as a medium of exchange does not make it legal tender. “ [ c ] ongress is vested with the exclusive exercise of the ․ power of coining money and regulating the value of domestic and foreign coin. ” the legal–tender cases, 110 u. s. 421, 448 (1884). swoger has provided no authority for the proposition that congress exercised that power with respect to appellees' coin. therefore, appellees were entitled to summary judgment as a matter of law .
silver coins up to a dollar were authorized by congress partly to show off the young nation’s economic prowess. of the 1, 578 dollars made that first year, all by hand presses, about 140 have survived. this coin is considered the finest of them, with crisp, lustrous details still visible on the allegorical lady liberty’s flowing hair. what appear to be heavy scratches across the coin are actually file marks, made when the coin was struck to ensure its weight in silver was precise .
if anyone doubts the enduring appeal of american currency, a sale completed thursday of a sparkling 1794 silver dollar should put that to rest. the coin, believed by some experts to be the first united states dollar ever minted, was sold to a nonprofit educational group for $ 7. 85 million, a world record for any coin .
next scenario. collection is stolen. thief has no idea coin is worth 5k. dealer sizes him up before offering 500 bucks. thief takes the money and runs !
i' ll tell you two things and not charge you' all for it - most dealers know absolutely nothing about doubled dies unless the coin is in the red book .
that coin is
worth
about the average of those 3 auction prices. the average of those 3 prices is $ 2702... . or... . 69. 3% of pcgs price guide... .. right on target. i' d be tickled pink to get $ 3, 900 for that coin .
i agree. my preferred coin dealer is a great guy. but according to him, you can' t be on both sides of the aisle. you have to choose .
a couple months later the bid drops to $ 12k. i call up heritage and offer to pay $ 11k or so figuring they would be happy to take a profit on the coin. i still liked the coin as a ms67. a deal is struck and within a month of that
transaction
the blue sheet drops to $ 10, 500... lol. so what happened to those
guys
bidding
$ 12k and $ 14k on that coin... .... . and that' s a rhetorical question .
the average auction price for the subject coin is thus $ 2, 702. 00. can i expect that to be the price shown in the pcgs price guide once it is updated ?
the other, mint and proof sets along with most bullion will never make you a fraction of the money that you could have made buying and selling truly rare key date coins and die varieties - folks putting money into mint and proof sets is a losing endeavor - i think you' d be better off with a boat - at least you can get out a few days a year and have fun - you will, know matter what lose money eventually in mint and proof sets .
during the 1990s, leading graders from all over the nation would come to new york to view auction lots and hypothesize as to grades that would later be assigned by pcgs and ngc. those who had the skills, adequate funds and nerves of gamblers bought coins after figuring likelihoods of grading outcomes at pcgs or ngc. the competition was fierce and it was very difficult for grading - wholesalers to profit from their purchases of fresh raw coins from stack’s (ny) auctions. many proof morgans were then offered .
i have been covering coin auctions for more than twenty years. i have contributed hundreds of coin auction reviews to numismatic news newspaper, coinlink and coinweek. com. my auction coverage has won awards from the nlg. in the past, i wrote an entire article on the meaning of auction prices. if people disagree with my approach, then let us please discuss auction phenomena in a civil manner .
how do coin dealers make a living ?
they buy as cheaply as they can and sell at a higher price point than their cost plus expenses - - just like everyone else in collectibles and retail .
i know that i am somewhat late in getting into the fray on how coin dealers make money but here goes! there are honest coin dealers that purchase coins mainly from the public at 10% back of bid based on the dealer' s grey sheets then sell the coins either to other coin dealers at bid or back to the public at ask or higher prices. then there are the dishonest coin dealers that purchase coins from the public at prices that teters on grand theft. when a person comes into their' shop to sell coins, the first thing out of their mouth is ,
what do you want for them ?
or
what are you looking to get out of them ?
. if that gets confused responses like
well, i don' t know !
or
i don' t know what they are worth !
or
what are they worth ?
, then the coin dealer will usually quote a price which is at least 50% below the actual value of the coins and most often a lot less .
swoger brought five claims against the defendants, styled respectively as claims for quantum meruit, fraud, breach of contract, constructive trust, and misappropriation of trade secrets. throughout the litigation, swoger took the position that the agreement required him to prove the coin was the first legal - tender gold coin struck pursuant to an act of congress. the viability of each of swoger' s claims depended upon the accuracy of this premise .
it works the other way too. i spotted an ogh 1874 - s 25c pcgs ms66 coming up in a heritage sale. the coin was wonderful and i graded it 66 + +. i felt it had a decent shot to upgrade... . and was hoping to pay not more than 10 - 20% over current 66 money which was around $ 6000. paying $ 8k would have been fine for me. as it was, it sold for around $ 9500 which was just too much risk for so little upside. a few months later the same coin is back in a heritage auction, now as an ngc ms67. that at least removed the grade risk. the coin is
bid
on blue sheet for around $ 14k. as i recall the coin doesn' t sell at auction as ms67 after getting bid up to around $ 10, 500 .
you really need a dealer to know what the prices mean. one coin could $ 5g and the same a month later $ 7g. lots of variables - but it auction prices show a good estimate on where the market is
ill tell you how. during the famos chicago show i saw a whole bunch of dealers who were interested in buying my gold rupees coin for $ 400 so what if happened to be a 3k coin. so thats how majority of them make it if they dont have have the big clientelle they rip some poor fellow off. there have been too many such incidents where such stories have been shared with me. i dont know why it helps them float their ego
swoger informed appellees that he had information that would prove that their coin was “the first united states coin issued for circulation, and was issued ․ under authority of [ a ] n act of congress. ” the act in question (act) was an act regulating foreign coins, and for other purposes, ch. 5, 1 stat. 300 (1793). swoger offered to sell this information to appellees for money. the complaint described the ensuing negotiation as follows :
in february of 2009, plaintiff contacted defendant kagin. negotiations began in which plaintiff informed him that the information that plaintiff had would prove that defendants kagin and contursi' s coin was indeed the first legal tender coin to be struck pursuant to an act of congress to circulate in the united states․ defendant kagin contacted plaintiff and advised him that they thought this information was worth $ 250, 000. 00. plaintiff then advised defendant kagin that he thought the information was worth $ 500, 000. 00 .
a moderate auction price is around the wholesale - retail border, a little below or a little above. if a dealer thinks that it is likely he has a coin sold, he will pay a little more than a wholesale price that other dealers would pay .
luster refers to the reflection of light on metal flow lines that came about while a coin was being struck. cartwheel luster means that the metal flow lines evenly radiate in a way that is visually analogous to metal spokes of an old wheel reflecting light while turning .
bowers & merena auctioned the childs family coin collection in new york at the end of august 1999. there were a significant number of ‘black & white, ’ late 19th - century proof silver coins sold, which were overshadowed by the 1804 dollar in the same offering .
retired dealer and avid collector of u. s. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. in recent years i have been working on a set of british coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible .
silver coins. some people find this gray - blue color to be attractive. the head of miss liberty on the obverse and the eagle on the reverse are frosted and bright - white. there are some hairlines, which are consistent with a grade of 63. this coin brought
in deciding to bid and what to bid on say an auction i like to not only look at cf - pcgs mv, auction prices, in addition i consider cdn bid, cw trends, nn coin market, and dealer sell ads - where are they vs cdn bid? but to keep it simple sometimes just the big 3 - tpg mv, auction, and cdn - ccdn spread. ultimately if one buys a truly outstanding coin (a subjective definition could be low pop, rainbow, etc) outside of the ranges then the equation defaults to cost + .
excluding the 1878 and 1895 dates, however, a collector can complete a set of philadelphia mint proof morgans, 1878 to 1904, without spending more than $ 5, 000 on any one coin. besides, it is not clear as to whether any 1921 morgans are true proofs .
coin doctors often attempt to mimic the colors that tend to form naturally, with proper storage, on 19th - century proof coins. leading experts can usually identify such artificial toning, though some pieces are particularly hard to analyze. i have viewed thousands of 19th - century proof coins .
i have paid $ 8 dollars for 1971 proofs sets with all the
big 3
lincoln' s ddo' s in them worth collectively more than $ 2500 for the three - i do not have to share my body of work when i am searching and digging for that doubled die. i have bought the books, i have searched the thousands of hours, i have belonged to the clubs, bought the magazines, updates, computers, phones and done the footwork and when i find one the above has already paid in advance for that coin. now not every coin, and not with every dealer, customer but the fact is i do not have to share my bought and paid for knowledge with every single person to be an honest coin dealer. i will though freely share with anyone who asks and will always help folks learn about these hidden treasures .
no, it isn' t up to date. for many series, the guide has been notoriously high although to pcgs' s credit, it has made tons of progress on this front. the coin you are looking at is a hold out. let me guess: $ 20 gold lib ?
you probably have one or more coin shops in your hometown, and you certainly have your choice of several within reasonable driving distance. but often, your best bet is to deal with the national retailers of gold and silver, whose big size give them economies of scale that translate into lower prices .
the mistake that we, (many collectors & dealers) make early on is thinking that common junk like mint and proof sets should be treated the same (in regards to buying and selling) as truly rare and desirable key date coins - they should not even be in the same room at the same time. they are not the same will never be the same and will be priced, bought and sold accordingly. i' m not sure why that is a shock to folks accept that people mistakenly believe that they should always
get their money back
on coins - why would folks think that? ?? it' ain' t true in any other market, antiques, guns, paintings, cars, and especially jewelry and furniture .
there are different colors and natural toning patterns. several factors affect toning. original philadelphia mint wrappers are central factors for late 19th - century and early 20th - century proof coins. the plush interior and wooden exterior of coin cases that were often used during the same time period are pertinent. furthermore, there are particular coin albums and collecting boards that were popular during the middle of the 20th century. coins stored in a certain way will be more likely to tone particular colors. it takes a great deal of experience for an expert to distinguish natural from artificial toning on late 19th - century proof coins .
coins have a range in value. do not expect every coin graded at x is worth y because not all coins graded x are created equal so y will vary based on subjective factors that do not translate well in math formulas. you may not like this but that is how it works ...
is a bit too strong a price for a “proof - 64” 1897 morgan. although it is not a good idea to grade a coin solely by viewing images, there is a good chance that the blue, gray, russet and green tones on the just mentioned 1894 are typical, natural and pleasing .
as a hobby, its fun but as a profession? i would imagine it would eat away at your soul after a while. all of the honest coin dealers that i know of don' t make much profit, if any. they do it for the love of the hobby and not financial gain .
it’s not as easy as youmight think! this course is designed to steer you in the right direction once you decide to become a retail, wholesale, vest pocket, internet, mail - order or coin show dealer. topics include dealer ethics, choosing a location and setting up a store, educational requirements, sourcing product and services provided to dealers. learn how press releases and public relations will bring in new clients. (note: early registration is recommended as class size is limited .) instructors: barry stuppler, ana president and owner of barry stuppler & co. ; and a. ronald sirna, ana general counsel, coin show dealer and president of the toned coin collector’s society. i took this course a couple of years ago and learned a lot. i took the course to learn something about the business but i don' t have any any intentions to become a dealer any time soon. you can register here. ​
dealer knows what they are doing. looks for premium ms - 65 coins. re - submits them multiple times until it comes back as a 66. instant profit, sometimes major profit. if this succeeded with one, single, coin, the price difference could easily be more than a month' s pay to me .
“the strike is so sharp, it leads me to believe it is the very fist impression of the die. it is easy to surmise that this is probably the first dollar struck in the u. s. ” said david hall, the co - founder of professional coin grading service, a firm that certifies collectible coins as genuine .
. although i did not view this coin, images suggest the possibility that it may possess the very much original ‘black & white’ proof texture that is frequently coveted by specialists in proof coins. though not literally ‘black, ’ the fields seem to be black in a way that many household mirrors project a ‘black and white’ glow when reflecting light .
in terms of the history of coin prices, proof morgans are not currently expensive. they were costlier from late 2007 to the middle of 2008, and more expensive in early 1990 as well. also, over the last 15 years, prices for proof - 64 proof morgans have been relatively more stable than prices for most other 19th - century coins .
the district court granted summary judgment. the district court determined that the act applied only to foreign coins, and that appellees' coin, which was struck in new york, could not have been legal tender under the act. the district court also found that all of the information swoger had provided to appellees was already known or otherwise publicly available. this appeal followed .
you do not state the data for your $ 3900 item description / date / demom / grade. for instance what is cdn bid? what is cw trends? nn coin market? many times price guides can lag behind changes in cdn so one needs consider multiple sources. pcgs has a fantastic, very reliable price guide and is certainly the first source i go to .
members of the general public can attend virtually all coin shows, yet much trading at shows is dealer - to - dealer, usually at wholesale prices. frequently, wholesale trades occur while collectors are watching or standing nearby. it would be ridiculous for caddyshack to suggest that, because retail buyers are eligible or have the opportunity to buy, that prices paid cannot be at wholesale levels .
although they appear notably different from business strikes, proof morgans are among the least distinctive of proof coins from the late 19th century in terms of physical characteristics. a combination of factors indicates the proof or business strike status of a coin. no single factor is definitive. there are non - proofs with deep mirrors and there are 19th - century proof coins that have faintly reflective surfaces .
i still don' t think a *. 92 coin should show a price in the ms60 column. yes it' s good to have the data for reference, but put it somewhere else or mark it with an asterisk... .. something! it takes a long time to look through each data point and many of the links to smaller auctions don' t work .
the texture of the fields is hard to perceive without magnification. a chemist or a physics professor may maintain that all coins struck during the 19th - century possess luster to some degree as there must be some flow lines, even if only visible with an electron microscope. from the point of view of coin collectors, proofs typically do not have luster and uncirculated non - proofs usually exhibit notable luster .
urltoken is a subsidiary of provident metals, llc. the website was founded at the request of customers who were looking for an online destination as reliable as provident’s trade - show business. provident’s numismatists are members in good standing of the american numismatic association, as well as the texas numismatic association. provident precious metals itself is a member of the professional coin grading service, the numismatic guaranty corporation, the numismatic conservation service, and the paper money guaranty corporation .
for the vast majority of the classic slabbed coin market, pcgs price guide is a max retail guide. it' s generally 50% above dealer' s buy prices. figure most larger dealers who constantly move inventory, will pay 60 - 70% for most coins based on pcgs price guide. this doesn' t include moderns, super high grades on very common coins, or scarce coins like key dates and popular type coins like xf / au bust dollars, etc .
in the framework of major coin auctions (not ebay auctions), on average, auction prices are around the border of wholesale and retail price ranges, thus moderate prices. if the average was well in the wholesale range, there would be no point in incurring the expenses to hold the auctions. the coins could just be sold at shows, sent on memo to retail dealers, or traded by other means. much wholesale and retail trading does occur quietly behind the scenes .
@ roadrunner said: for the vast majority of the classic slabbed coin market, pcgs price guide is a max retail guide. it' s generally 50% above dealer' s buy prices. figure most larger dealers who constantly move inventory, will pay 60 - 70% for most coins based on pcgs price guide. this doesn' t include moderns, super high grades on very common coins, or scarce coins like key dates and popular type coins like xf / au bust dollars, etc .
swoger did not satisfy the requirements of rule 56 (d). he failed to identify what specific facts a deposition of contursi would have revealed that would have precluded summary judgment. indeed, he could not identify such facts, because whether appellees were entitled to summary judgment turned on a pure question of law: the legal status of appellees' coin. accordingly, the district court did not abuse its discretion by denying swoger' s request for a continuance. see tatum, 441 f. 3d at 1100 .
discovery originally closed on november 26, 2010. however, appellees sold the coin in december 2011. accordingly, on october 18, 2012, the district court permitted swoger to depose persons involved in the sale, including steven contursi. on may 24, 2013, appellees moved for summary judgment. swoger, however, had yet to depose contursi. accordingly, on june 19, 2013, just four days before the scheduled date of oral argument, swoger moved for a continuance. the district court denied his motion .
provident metals has a huge selection. in addition to the coins and rounds you’d expect, one particular noteworthy product on the provident metals website is the ron paul 1 / 10 - ounce gold round. these were selling at around $ 200 over spot, per - ounce, or roughly $ 20 over the spot value of each 1 / 10 - ounce round. by contrast, apmex was selling 1 / 10 - ounce gold eagles for roughly the same price, (actually about $ 0. 30 more per coin) .
consider buying locally – your local coin shop can be a great place to buy bullion and coins. just make sure you apply the same rules of analyzing the business as you would an online dealer. if you buy locally, you take delivery of the silver when you purchase it. therefore, there’s no risk of getting swindled by a non - delivery. another advantage to purchasing locally is that no reporting requirements are required. you can walk into the store, pay with cash and remain anonymous if you wish to do so .
roadrunner: pcgs price guide is just a general market guide. it' s up to each of us to determine what
market
price is and
where
that market is. 60 - 70% of pcgs price guide will work for the majority of desirable coin transactions in the market place. the other key is knowing the 30 - 40% of the time where it doesn' t work like that. and auctions are potentially one of those
wheres
( or places) where price guide may not work as well .
proof morgans that grade from 63 to 65 are extremely popular. yes, those that grade from 60 to 62 cost much less. these, however, tend to be unattractive, heavily cleaned, full of hairlines, overdipped, or irritating for other reasons. occasionally, of course, a collector may find a very attractive proof morgan that is pcgs - or ncg - certified as proof - 61 or - 62. a wonderfully toned coin, for example, may have some moderate to heavy scratches, perhaps across the eagle on the reverse .
every dealer i know says the way to make money is to
buy it right
. now that means different things to different people. to some that may be 45% back of bid on some items or 10% over bid for some items. it really depends for example as you grow in the business you start to know your product, it' s weak points and strong points and at which time for each. if a dealers has $ 14, 000 sitting in the basement in mint and proof sets he does not want no more and will not offer much as with the 45% scenario - i cannot fault the man for that because he really hopes the guy will walk away, nothing wrong with that - it' s like everything else in the market supply and demand. if the same man walks in with a 1922
no
d
lincoln in a pcgs au - 50 that same dealer may offer over bid for that coin because he knows you cannot buy them for grey - sheet money and he' s got several people waiting for that coin .
this statement is not illuminating, and is beside the reality that, in the same major auction, some coins will sell for wholesale prices while other coins sell for retail prices. if all the bidders for one lot are dealers seeking to inventory the respective coin, then it will probably not sell for a retail price. if three or more non - dealing collectors are eagerly bidding on the next lot, then it will likely sell for a retail price. in many cases, intelligence, experience and knowledge are required to fairly interpret an auction result .
auctions that stack’s (ny) conducted during the 1990s proved to be an excellent training ground as raw coins came from various private sources, and the catalogue grades bore little resemblance to eventual grades assigned by pcgs or ngc. as many members of the general public purchased proof sets from 1865 to 1910, and variety of people ‘ended up’ with them during the 20th century, quite a few of these found their way into stack’s (ny) auctions. before the year 2000, stack’s was probably the best - known coin auction firm among the general public .
in multiple posts to this thread, i honestly tried to shed light on the meaning of auction prices, and the differences among auction prices in single major auctions. over time, i have been trying hard to educate people about this concept, which i believe is very important. indeed, many coin collectors read auction prices realized on pcgs coinfacts and on the web sites of auction firms. collectors care about the values of their respective coins and about the costs of collecting. it is important to discuss the meaning of auction prices and how to interpret them .
the parties agreed to meet at a trade show to conclude negotiations. at the trade show on april 3, 2009, kagin allegedly insisted that swoger provide the proof behind his theory. swoger informed appellees that the act provided for spanish and spanish colonial coins to pass at 27. 4 grains per dollar. that would require a 15 dollar gold piece like the brasher doubloon to weigh 411 grains. swoger informed appellees that because their coin weighed 410. 5 grains, it must have been struck “pursuant to the act. ” appellees refused to pay swoger for this information .
but let’s not forget the offline, brick - and - mortar coin dealer. while their prices and scruples may vary, a good, reliable dealer you can meet and establish a relationship with can be worth his weight in gold. shopping offline also lets you save on shipping charges, which can make up for the potentially higher prices on smaller buys. getting in good with a local dealer also allows you to sell your coins and rounds back at better prices – possibly because he’ll give you a better deal, but definitely because you won’t have to pay the return shipping .
the
100 greatest u. s. coins
book is currently in its fourth edition by whitman publishing. the book features 100 of the greatest coins made in america. by no means does this book include all of the great rarities but it is extremely well written with beautiful pictures and stories of the coins in the book. perhaps most significant from an investment standpoint is appendix b in the back of the book which shows a track record of u. s. coin value information from 1960 to present. click here to see which of the
100 greatest u. s. coins
are currently in our inventory .
tough coins to find and high quality original ones often bring 80 - 120% of price guide. sometimes 2x to 3x price guide at extremes. super common dreck (like a bu 1958 wheat cent) might be lucky to get 20 - 30% of price guide. but, for most coins in the $ 100 - $ 3, 000 range, the 60 - 70% rule works fairly well. it' s a good start. there is no set rule on how price guide applies to any coin in question. but we' d all love to be able to mark up our coins 50% above wholesale when selling them .
if one is going to consider auction prices, you will need to look at the individual coins to see if there is any quality factor good or bad which may have influenced the result - rainbow toning or some ugly toned piece which brought inferior results. just doing math to get an average auction number does not really cut it and would be a methodology i fundamentally disagree with if the why of the results from individual pieces is not considered. in addition what is the cdn / ccdn spread for the coin in question. rainbow toned coins are of course a different animal with their following and folks who won' t touch them at some of those prices .
i didn' t link auction prices directly with pcgs price guide in any of my posts. so i' m not sure how that conclusion was met by analyst. pcgs price guide is just a general market guide. it' s up to each of us to determine what
market
price is and
where
that market is. 60 - 70% of pcgs price guide will work for the majority of desirable coin transactions in the market place. the other key is knowing the 30 - 40% of the time where it doesn' t work like that. and auctions are potentially one of those
wheres
( or places) where price guide may not work as well.
rare coin wholesalers is a rare-coin company that specializes in united states rare coins . located in irvine , california , rare coin wholesalers buys , sells , appraises and trades rare coins and precious metals . originally established as a s.l. contursi company in 1990 , the owners have bought and sold over two billion dollars ' worth of rare coins . rare coin wholesalers sustains a rotating inventory of tens of millions of dollars ' worth of rare numismatic coins . rcw has either owned or participate in the purchase and sale of a majority of the “ 100 greatest u.s. coins ” published by whitman publishing . the neil/carter/contursi 1794 flowing hair silver dollar , the king of siam proof set and the unique 1787 brasher doubloon are just a few of the rarities that rcw has had in its inventory . 
rare coin wholesalers is a rare-coin company that specializes in united states rare coins. located in irvine, california, rare coin wholesalers buys, sells, appraises and trades rare coins and precious metals. originally established as a s.l. contursi company in 1990, the owners have bought and sold over two billion dollars' worth of rare coins. rare coin wholesalers sustains a rotating inventory of tens of millions of dollars' worth of rare numismatic coins. rcw has either owned or participate in the purchase and sale of a majority of the “ 100 greatest u.s. coins ” published by whitman publishing. the neil/carter/contursi 1794 flowing hair silver dollar, the king of siam proof set and the unique 1787 brasher doubloon are just a few of the rarities that rcw has had in its inventory.
rare coin wholesalers is a rare-coin company that specializes in united states rare coins. located in irvine, california, rare coin wholesalers buys, sells, appraises and trades rare coins and precious metals. originally established as a s.l. contursi company in 1990, the owners have bought and sold over two billion dollars' worth of rare coins. rare coin wholesalers sustains a rotating inventory of tens of millions of dollars' worth of rare numismatic coins. rcw has either owned or participate in the purchase and sale of a majority of the “ 100 greatest u.s. coins ” published by whitman publishing. the neil/carter/contursi 1794 flowing hair silver dollar, the king of siam proof set and the unique 1787 brasher doubloon are just a few of the rarities that rcw has had in its inventory.