PL9fwy3NUQKwYGN66V9CL-c7DFnG0_Swb2/Lh3aKCz4dQA.srt

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Assalamu alaikum, welcome back to English Poetry.

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Today we start a very interesting part of our

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course. It's actually the final set of poems. We

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have two poems, one written by a Jewish

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man and the other written by an Israeli poet.

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I asked you earlier in the course, what do you

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want? You know, I thought you would be like Sibel

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saying, "We want to die." But you said you wanted

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Palestinian and Israeli poetry. And I think this

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shows how mature your thinking is. Not that if you

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said something else, you don't have that. But it's

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significant to study to see what Israel does, what

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the Zionist movement has been doing with poetry.

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So far we spoke about the thrilling aspects of

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poetry, how poetry transcends us, how poetry

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breaks the barriers and boundaries and pushes

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the boundaries, you know, all these clichés we use

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to talk about how the aesthetic values of poetry,

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how poetry helps and contributes to the

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advancement of human thought and civilization, how

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poetry changes people, how poetry unites us,

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brings us together, etc., etc., because poetry is

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universal, because poetry transcends all these

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barriers of race and gender and religion and

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geography and time, etc. However, poetry has also

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been used as a tool, a weapon, by totalitarian

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regimes, by colonizers, and this is in part what

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Edward Said was exploring in *Orientalism*, in his

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amazing book *Orientalism*.

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Edward Said examined how the West, how Europe, used

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literature in order to create certain realities,

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to change narratives, to change discourse, to

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present the others—Africans, Asians, people in the

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Middle East, non-white, non-European, non-

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Christians—as savages, uncivilized, in need of

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help, and that was the white man's moral obligation

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to go there, build civilization, civilize those

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people.

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And despite

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the fact that this poetry and literature is still

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fascinating as a work of art, thematically

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speaking, when poetry becomes an ideological tool,

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it loses its poetic value in many ways. I'm

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talking about this at a time when we mentioned how

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Israel, we mentioned this many times, how Israel

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still arrests Palestinians for writing poetry.

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Dareen Tatour is an example.  She echoed what Israeli

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general, war criminal Moshe Dayan said about Fadwa

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Toukan, how a poem by Fadwa Toukan is like facing 20

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Palestinian commanders.

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Now, the gist of what I have in mind here is that

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Palestine, and this is significant, was first and

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foremost occupied metaphorically in poetry, in

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literature. Because how can you ask people to move

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from one place, and this happened before the

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Holocaust, before, you know, there has always been

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antisemitism and racism against Jews around the

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world throughout time and place. But this is

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before, because the Holocaust was the final thing.

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Let's go to somewhere else and there were so many

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places, and Palestine sadly was the place. We're

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not sad. I'm not sure who said this. Was it

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Rashida Tlaib, the Palestinian-

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American congresswoman who said, "We welcome the

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victims of the Holocaust. We welcome those Jewish

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refugees running away from Europe, from the white

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man. And we don't regret this." But again, it's sad

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how the Zionist regime used the Holocaust in

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order to destroy Palestinians, to destroy

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Palestine and to build, to establish a state only

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for the Jews. So if you want to tell people, "Let's

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go there," partly you have to convince them that

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this place is what? Empty? And paradoxically, that

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it also flows with milk and honey, the biblical

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phrase. And also that there are no people there,

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yeah? There are no people there. And that God gave

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us this place. And you just keep doing this in

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literature. And if you do this, this includes a

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lot of exclusion and inclusion and fabrications

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and changing realities, or as the Trump team

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would say, "alternative facts." There are

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facts and there are alternative

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facts. I have a very beautiful poem written by, okay,

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I'll start with the second poem written by a Jewish

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poet. When I say "Jewish" specifically because he was

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born before, like he was writing before the

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establishment of Israel, so to speak. The poem is

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by Tuvia. Please don't look at your book. I have

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something in mind. Don't close your book. Close your

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book.

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There, I said to Tuvia Rubner, a man born in Europe,

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not in Palestine, "I set out from my temporary home

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to show my sons the place that I came from." And he

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means Palestine; he doesn't mean Slovenia or

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Slovakia. There I said, "I lay on the ground with a

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stone for a pillow, lower than the grass, like the

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dust of the earth. Everything has been preserved

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there."

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We passed through mountains, forests, and cities

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that were caves, and water gathered in pools on

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the way, and the roads were bad. The car bumped on

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the ditches.

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"I was born here," I said to my sons. "My parents and

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grandparents were born nearby. Everybody is born

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somewhere. There was a house here," I said to my

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sons, "and the wind came between me and the words."

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Last stanza. "I set out to show my sons the place

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that I came from." Now I want you to take a moment,

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especially those who haven't read the poem yet,

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because the remaining two lines, the last lines,

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are actually the sons replying to their father. I

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want you to guess what the sons would be saying to

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their father, going through this beautiful

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experience. This is like a Darwish-style poem,

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right? Look at the first stanza: With a stone for

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a pillow, lower than the grass, like the dust of the

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earth. Everything has been preserved there. I was

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born here. My parents were born there. We passed

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by mountains and forests and cities and caves and

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the water gathered in pools. Yeah, the road was

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bumpy. There were ditches. Look at this beautiful

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thing. I was born here. My parents and

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grandparents were born nearby. Everyone is born

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somewhere. There was a house here. I said to my

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sons, and the wind came between me and the words. I

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set out to show my sons the place I came from.

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Yeah, give me a guess. How would the kids, the

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sons—probably indicating that they're not just

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children, they're adults, at least teenagers—I

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said, "Don't look, don't look, listen to me." I'd

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say, like he said, "Everything was preserved here,"

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the children, as he said. So, you're going for the

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kids questioning their parents, their fathers'

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narrative. That's a good idea.

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Okay, asking questions. So, question, question.

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Good. The idea of questioning is in itself very

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good.

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Oh, thank you, God, for bringing us here. Thank you.

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So you're saying this is a process. If the parents

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are brainwashed, if he's been indoctrinating his

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sons, they must be ready to accept this, the

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alternative facts. That's also good. More? Please?

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No, not you, sorry, you're locked. You're locked.

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One more? Someone else? Yeah? How would the sons

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be replying to their dad? Please? Do you have a

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picture of the old house? Yeah, do you have

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photographic evidence? But if this was composed

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like a hundred years ago, this is an old poem.

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Please. So they will

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be reluctant to accept the alternative facts. So

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are you suggesting that there could be some kind

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of alienation, like if the father is truly and

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really attached to this land, as the poem shows,

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perhaps the kids, the sons, will not be as much

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attached to the land. But poetically speaking,

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what would they—like, good ideas—how would you

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put this in poetry? Remember, poetry is not

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necessarily mainly good poetry; it's not direct

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poetry that gives us answers. It's not, but you

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know, poets say things in different ways. If you

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are a poet, how would you conclude? From our

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ideology or his ideology? Of course, it should be

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in his shoes. You have to endure the stink, of

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course. Yes?

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Okay, you can keep the music as background.

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Yes, please.

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How would you do this? Okay, but I like your

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ideas. They are really very good

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ideas. This is what the kids say: "And when will we

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eat? And where will we sleep?"

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This is not the whole poem. I did this here, you

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know, academically; you have to be honest. This ...

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I added this ellipsis because I, you

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know, I don't want to say the whole poem. Well, I

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can send you the whole text. So what do you make

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of this? Like, first the poem and then the kids'

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reply.

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Yeah, so you guess that there will be questions,

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but interesting questions. When will, like, the dad—

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imagine, you know this happens a lot—the dad would

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be like, passionate about something, about football,

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about his past, about something that he did, about

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playing football, about flying kites, about doing

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many things, and then the kids would be like, "Meh." So

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this is the "meh," but what does it indicate? Okay,

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let's go to the first answer. What do you think?

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What do you notice about this, poetically speaking,

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you or some of you? Do you think this is? Again,

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please don't do this. I know many people when they

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study, for example, a poem by an Israeli poet or

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Jewish poet, the first thing they want to do is,

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"Is it good? Is it bad?" That's not what we do; that's why

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we do poetry. You could like the poem; you could

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hate the poem; it's up to you. But please don't

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passion, whatever he tries to convey to them. They

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cared more about food and rest, physical... Look

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at the man, what the man did. Again, I find this

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beautiful. I lay on the ground with a stone for a

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pillow lower than the grass, like the dust of the

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earth. The simile here, the simplicity of the

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simile. Like I became part of this land. That's

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simple. Because he claims that he belongs.

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Everything has been preserved.

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And then, we passed, that's part of the journey or

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some kind of journey of initiation through

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mountains, forests, and cities that were caves, and

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water gathered in pools on the way, and the roads

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were bad. The car sputtered. So it's not all, you know,

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idyllic and romantic. There were some difficulties

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basically. The roads, probably they're not as

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smooth as they are in Europe. There were so many

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ditches, you know, holes, potholes. And again,

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that's the core of the poem. I was born here. This

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is my land. I said to my sons, my parents are, and

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grandparents were born here nearby. Look at this

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interesting thing. There was a house here in the

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past. I said to my sons, and the wind came between

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me and the words.

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The wind, nature interfering. I sit out to show my

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sons the place that I came from, and, "When will we

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eat?" they said. And "When will we eat?" asked my

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sons. And "Where will we sleep?" So yeah, we have

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the past simple tense. If we talk about the

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father, he basically uses the past simple tense,

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right? And the sons use a future tense. It's

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interesting. This man cares about this connection.

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He's on a journey to find connection, to find

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roots.

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But the kids, all they care about is

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food and sleep, rest.

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Now the temporary home refers to his home in

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Europe.

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That's not my place. Despite the fact that Jews

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lived for hundreds and hundreds of years in

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Europe, which is something interesting. Some of

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you are studying the management of Venice right

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now. Shylock and the ghettos, isolation imposed on

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them, and probably sometimes chosen.

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Now I find this very interesting, how he used,

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there's a short story I picked from *Morning in

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Jenin* from Susan Abulhawa's novel. It's just two

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pages; I picked it as a short story. And Susan

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Abulhawa tries to show the difference between Ari,

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Ari and Hassan are friends, a Palestinian Muslim,

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a Palestinian Jew. And she tries to show how they

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are different in terms of what the land means to

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them. For Hassan, the soil, the land is everything.

276
00:18:07,710 --> 00:18:09,790
It's his future. It's his livelihood. It's his

277
00:18:09,790 --> 00:18:12,870
life. He's part of this. He cares more about it

278
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:17,070
than anything else. But for Ari, the land is dirt.

279
00:18:18,610 --> 00:18:24,070
Hassan is a farmer. Ari goes to study medicine. I

280
00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:28,290
think here the fact that he uses a stone for a

281
00:18:28,290 --> 00:18:31,030
pillow rather than, like, I don't know, simply lying

282
00:18:31,030 --> 00:18:34,570
on the ground without anything in between you and

283
00:18:34,570 --> 00:18:41,270
the land could indicate how he's possibly... true...

284
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:43,970
yeah, because he says like the dust of the land, but

285
00:18:43,970 --> 00:18:47,730
the stone he uses still creates some kind of a

286
00:18:47,730 --> 00:18:52,610
buffer zone, you know? You see the point here? It's

287
00:18:52,610 --> 00:18:56,270
like he doesn't want to be part... it's not like,

288
00:18:56,270 --> 00:19:01,030
poetically speaking, he doesn't like directly mixing

289
00:19:01,030 --> 00:19:04,670
with the land, like uniting with the land. He uses

290
00:19:04,670 --> 00:19:08,110
something else in between. I'm not sure if this

291
00:19:08,110 --> 00:19:12,630
indicates again how hard he's trying to, he's

292
00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:15,610
attempting to find roots, but again, failing

293
00:19:15,610 --> 00:19:20,710
because still the land is strange to him. It's not

294
00:19:20,710 --> 00:19:23,820
his motherland. You don't know if this is your

295
00:19:23,820 --> 00:19:26,060
land; you don't want to, and you're not sure how

296
00:19:26,060 --> 00:19:29,680
you... if you have this experience, if you have a

297
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,080
plot of land here or there, if you're farmers

298
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,580
originally, farmers wouldn't be... if you go to

299
00:19:34,580 --> 00:19:36,420
somebody, to your friend to visit them in their

300
00:19:36,420 --> 00:19:38,980
field, the first thing you look for, a chair to

301
00:19:38,980 --> 00:19:42,240
sit on, or a piece of cloth, or a stone, or something

302
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,300
because you don't want to get dirty. But for them,

303
00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:47,940
this is their land. Their life; this is part of

304
00:19:47,940 --> 00:19:50,700
them. This is not getting dirty; this is being

305
00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:54,340
there. This is again an extension of the

306
00:19:54,340 --> 00:19:57,840
connection here. Like the dust of the earth,

307
00:19:58,020 --> 00:20:00,280
everything has been preserved there, and this is

308
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:04,730
again what I want to focus on. If we talk about

309
00:20:04,730 --> 00:20:08,530
the problem with the Zionists, the Zionists in

310
00:20:08,530 --> 00:20:12,070
general, is that—many problems actually—is that

311
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:16,430
in transition there's something called inclusion

312
00:20:16,430 --> 00:20:20,250
and exclusion. And that's seriously dangerous. If

313
00:20:20,250 --> 00:20:22,110
you translate a text, you translate a text. You

314
00:20:22,110 --> 00:20:24,690
don't just pick paragraphs or something and

315
00:20:24,690 --> 00:20:27,070
present it in a way that serves your own ideology.

316
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:31,450
So yeah, the Jews who were here in Palestine came

317
00:20:31,450 --> 00:20:34,510
from different geographical places, but before the

318
00:20:34,510 --> 00:20:38,210
Jews, there were many other people there, the

319
00:20:38,210 --> 00:20:41,730
Canaanites for example. But for them, history

320
00:20:41,730 --> 00:20:44,450
begins when the Jews came to Palestine. And

321
00:20:44,450 --> 00:20:46,330
history, even… I'm not sure if you're following

322
00:20:46,330 --> 00:20:52,190
*Haaretz*, the Israeli newspaper, has been showing in

323
00:20:52,190 --> 00:20:56,410
many ways so many archaeological finds that prove

324
00:20:56,410 --> 00:21:01,030
that the people before the Jews came, they were…

325
00:21:01,130 --> 00:21:02,610
they had several… we know this; we have been

326
00:21:02,610 --> 00:21:04,490
saying this for a long time. They had their

327
00:21:04,490 --> 00:21:06,490
civilizations, their places, their cities, their

328
00:21:06,490 --> 00:21:08,450
villages, and everything. But they have been

329
00:21:08,450 --> 00:21:11,310
eradicated from history, erased by the Zionists.

330
00:21:11,530 --> 00:21:14,010
They simply don't exist. History in Palestine

331
00:21:14,010 --> 00:21:16,250
begins the moment the Jews came to Palestine.

332
00:21:19,210 --> 00:21:21,450
And then when they were expelled by the Romans,

333
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:26,230
by, you know, history stopped there for 2000

334
00:21:26,230 --> 00:21:32,640
years. There was nothing. Palestine, the promised

335
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:37,660
land, has been waiting for the return of the Jews,

336
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:43,960
the chosen people. So this is a fabrication. And I

337
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,660
mentioned this before; Mahmoud Darwish said, "I

338
00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:49,160
came back to visit my original village, and there

339
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:54,650
were the remains of my family house, the remains

340
00:21:54,650 --> 00:21:59,970
of the houses of my relatives and people I know."

341
00:22:01,430 --> 00:22:04,470
He said, "I met a Jewish shepherd originally from

342
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:09,590
Yemen, and he said…" When I chatted with this guy, I

343
00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:12,830
realized that he thinks that these ruins are

344
00:22:12,830 --> 00:22:18,090
actually Roman ruins. So Palestinian villages… and

345
00:22:18,090 --> 00:22:20,810
we know when… and that's why I hate such kinds of

346
00:22:20,810 --> 00:22:23,130
poetry. I like it from an artistic point of view…

347
00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:27,560
Thank you.

348
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:36,460
Because this poetry was one to… yes, the Zionists

349
00:22:36,460 --> 00:22:38,640
used terror; they used politics; they used money;

350
00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:40,620
they used everything to create… to destroy

351
00:22:40,620 --> 00:22:44,640
Palestine and create Israel. And I think this kind

352
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,960
of poetry is in part to blame for the ethnic

353
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:48,700
cleansing and destruction of Palestine, for

354
00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:53,980
massacres, for destruction. In 1947, '48, '49, and

355
00:22:53,980 --> 00:22:57,340
those years, Israel destroyed over 400 Palestinian

356
00:22:57,340 --> 00:23:00,560
villages. Can you imagine that? Hundreds of

357
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,440
thousands of Palestinians were dismissed,

358
00:23:02,620 --> 00:23:05,080
displaced, kicked out. Tens of thousands were

359
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:05,520
killed.

360
00:23:08,590 --> 00:23:12,410
And the man here is saying that everything has

361
00:23:12,410 --> 00:23:17,470
been preserved. So Palestine was empty, just waiting

362
00:23:17,470 --> 00:23:22,550
for them to return back? No, not everything has

363
00:23:22,550 --> 00:23:23,950
been preserved.

364
00:23:27,670 --> 00:23:32,090
So when a Jewish poet says everything has been

365
00:23:32,090 --> 00:23:34,670
preserved, this is a fabrication of history. This

366
00:23:34,670 --> 00:23:38,230
goes against history. And again, if you are

367
00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:41,310
interested, I really can send you many articles

368
00:23:41,310 --> 00:23:45,790
from Israeli scientists recently who started to

369
00:23:45,790 --> 00:23:51,610
show that most of Israelis'

370
00:23:52,530 --> 00:23:54,990
theories about Palestine and the Jews here were

371
00:23:54,990 --> 00:23:57,310
actually fabrications and myths. Look at the half

372
00:23:57,310 --> 00:23:59,270
shekel. The half shekel, you know the half shekel,

373
00:23:59,370 --> 00:24:02,270
there is a lyre, and I find the pun very

374
00:24:02,270 --> 00:24:07,060
interesting—l-y-r-e, the musical instrument. This

375
00:24:07,060 --> 00:24:10,120
was a lie. Somebody came in the 60s or 70s and

376
00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:13,040
said, "Wow, I found this." And they… this proves

377
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,620
that we were here before, et cetera. This proves

378
00:24:15,620 --> 00:24:18,660
that we are the rightful owners of the land. And

379
00:24:18,660 --> 00:24:21,060
20 years later, this was discovered to be a

380
00:24:21,060 --> 00:24:24,060
fabrication. And we still have it. Even Netanyahu,

381
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,840
like three years ago, he posted a coin because

382
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,820
there was this post on Facebook saying a kid

383
00:24:30,820 --> 00:24:34,060
somewhere in Palestine found… a Jewish kid found

384
00:24:34,060 --> 00:24:38,620
an ancient coin, and he posted about it on

385
00:24:38,620 --> 00:24:41,080
Facebook, on Twitter, saying, "Yes, we are the

386
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,740
rightful owners of Palestine." And it turns out to

387
00:24:45,740 --> 00:24:52,300
be a souvenir from the gift shop, a lie. If you

388
00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:55,120
read more, there is always this literature about

389
00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:58,480
the enmity between, the hostility between the Jews

390
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,000
when they came to Palestine thousands of years ago

391
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,160
and the natives of Palestine. But now studies

392
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,680
started to prove that no, there were good

393
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,510
relationships between those people. So those

394
00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:15,930
people were welcoming of those Jewish immigrants

395
00:25:15,930 --> 00:25:24,410
who came from around Palestine. Okay, now again,

396
00:25:24,410 --> 00:25:28,310
I'm not sure what he means here when he says the

397
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:31,210
cities that were caves. I'm not sure if he refers

398
00:25:31,210 --> 00:25:36,690
to how in the past the Jews used caves and nature

399
00:25:36,690 --> 00:25:40,550
and mountains as places, or whether he refers to

400
00:25:40,550 --> 00:25:44,270
the existing natives, the Palestinians, who are

401
00:25:44,270 --> 00:25:49,970
considered primitive, as to live in caves in the 19th, in the

402
00:25:49,970 --> 00:25:54,530
20th century. Look at the water, and the roads were

403
00:25:54,530 --> 00:25:57,070
bad, indicating this is not a smooth ride; this is

404
00:25:57,070 --> 00:25:59,640
not a smooth journey; there will be ditches; there

405
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,320
will be some difficulty on the road. I told you,

406
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,140
and again we go back to this: "I was born here." He

407
00:26:07,140 --> 00:26:11,720
wasn't, but again he's erasing two thousand years

408
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,160
of history. "I was born here." No, you were born in

409
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,560
Europe, and my parents… my parents… my grandparents

410
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,900
were born nearby. Yeah, if nearby means Russia is

411
00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:29,100
nearby, or Slovakia, or what's the country… There was

412
00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:31,560
a house here. I find it interesting how he starts

413
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,

445
00:28:27,180 --> 00:28:30,280
No matter what we do, how much, how hard we work at

446
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,380
the end of the day, they're going to be like, "And

447
00:28:33,380 --> 00:28:37,960
when will we eat, and where will we sleep?" Very

448
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,920
interesting thing. Okay, there are, okay, I'll get

449
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,820
back to you. There are questions here, so there

450
00:28:44,820 --> 00:28:47,480
are questions here I want you to think of. The

451
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,460
relationship—is the speaker's relationship to the

452
00:28:50,460 --> 00:28:55,520
land genuine, and how is that? A father is in

453
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,120
search for a connection with the land while his

454
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:04,070
sons care about something else. Why? How? What is

455
00:29:04,070 --> 00:29:06,730
it? What does that indicate? This is a poem about

456
00:29:06,730 --> 00:29:09,330
Palestine. And that's my last point before I

457
00:29:09,330 --> 00:29:15,070
listen to you. And in Palestine. But where are the

458
00:29:15,070 --> 00:29:15,510
Palestinians?

459
00:29:18,550 --> 00:29:22,610
If this was written in the early years of the 20th

460
00:29:22,610 --> 00:29:24,850
century, I think there were close to a million

461
00:29:24,850 --> 00:29:25,470
Palestinians.

462
00:29:28,060 --> 00:29:33,480
Yeah, Palestinians don't exist. The poem erases

463
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,300
them, annihilates them, eradicates them, takes

464
00:29:37,300 --> 00:29:41,700
them out. And therefore, I think of how politics

465
00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:44,660
and poetry, you know, come together and play this

466
00:29:44,660 --> 00:29:50,500
important role. Now, Golda Meir, Israeli war

467
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:55,540
criminal and prime minister, said that there is no

468
00:29:55,540 --> 00:29:58,160
such thing as Palestinians. They never existed.

469
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,140
They don't exist. Now, this is a political

470
00:30:02,140 --> 00:30:05,560
statement, but I think it was made a long time ago

471
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:11,280
in poetry. Palestinians never—there are no such

472
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,320
there's no such thing as Palestinians; they

473
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:18,280
never existed; they don't exist; and you will be

474
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,580
fine; you'll find like other poems. I did some

475
00:30:21,580 --> 00:30:23,700
research on this; if you're interested, I can send

476
00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:26,720
it to you. But Palestinians are not mentioned;

477
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:31,600
they're not there. What but when they are, they're

478
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,300
savages; they're uncivilized.

479
00:30:36,570 --> 00:30:41,890
They want somebody to kill them, to kick them out,

480
00:30:42,130 --> 00:30:47,390
to civilize them, to send them out of Palestine.

481
00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:51,670
So again, this is how dangerous poetry can be as

482
00:30:51,670 --> 00:30:53,970
an ideological tool. So I'll give you one or two

483
00:30:53,970 --> 00:30:56,290
minutes to say something briefly about this poem,

484
00:30:56,390 --> 00:31:00,650
quickly. I said, "Go on," so you don't have to ask.

485
00:31:10,290 --> 00:31:14,330
So the Palestinians in these two sentences, they

486
00:31:14,330 --> 00:31:16,870
are—the effects of them, their existence, maybe

487
00:31:16,870 --> 00:31:20,750
sons, other kids know about technology, see, watch

488
00:31:20,750 --> 00:31:23,570
some videos about Palestinians in the land, and

489
00:31:23,570 --> 00:31:30,240
they—they're sure that this land is not theirs. But

490
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,560
again, it doesn't mean like all sons are going to

491
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,680
be reacting in the same way. So if you're saying

492
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,520
Palestinians will—I'm sure that Palestinians who

493
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,040
were born in America, in the diaspora, when they

494
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,520
come to Palestine, to visit Palestine, they're not

495
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,200
going to be, "Yeah, food is good, I want to eat."

496
00:31:46,780 --> 00:31:48,880
But it's not going to be your first concern or

497
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:54,280
your first question. Thank you. were bad, and the

498
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:59,300
wind that stopped his words are proofs that nature

499
00:31:59,300 --> 00:32:03,920
is rejecting them. But I saw that his way to prove

500
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,660
to his children that they were the first there, or

501
00:32:07,660 --> 00:32:09,900
that if they were the first people before them,

502
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,460
they would fix their roads and build. Yeah,

503
00:32:13,460 --> 00:32:16,580
possible, but again, don't compare a country that

504
00:32:16,580 --> 00:32:20,200
has been under occupation and European invasion

505
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,640
for hundreds of years to Paris or London or other

506
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,320
European cities. Many people make this mistake. So

507
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,680
there was this person arguing that in terms of

508
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,120
European definition of what a city is, yeah, there

509
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,700
were no cities in—not only in Palestine, but in

510
00:32:40,700 --> 00:32:45,780
Africa, in the Middle East, in Asia even. We talk

511
00:32:45,780 --> 00:32:47,960
about close to a million people living in

512
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:49,960
Palestine at that time. If those people didn't

513
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,540
exist, then those people who say Palestinians

514
00:32:53,540 --> 00:32:59,340
don't exist or didn't exist are mass murderers,

515
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,350
they're genocidal. You said that the tense are

516
00:33:02,350 --> 00:33:06,270
past tense and future tense. But in the last

517
00:33:06,270 --> 00:33:08,790
sentence, "they ask my son." It is like present.

518
00:33:09,310 --> 00:33:12,070
Exactly. The son—like what I'm saying is that

519
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:14,650
because this is also—the present is close to the

520
00:33:14,650 --> 00:33:20,690
future here. So he said, "I, we passed." I said,

521
00:33:20,850 --> 00:33:26,590
right? I said, and then I said again and again. I

522
00:33:26,590 --> 00:33:30,810
said, "The wind came." But the reality came, came,

523
00:33:30,910 --> 00:33:36,010
etc. The reality is the son, the kids are in the

524
00:33:36,010 --> 00:33:37,910
present and the future. They care more about

525
00:33:37,910 --> 00:33:40,590
what's going on now and what's going to happen in

526
00:33:40,590 --> 00:33:47,490
the future. Unlike... Possibly, yes. Possibly,

527
00:33:47,570 --> 00:33:52,550
yes. So that's why I'm taking this poem as some

528
00:33:52,550 --> 00:33:56,220
kind of shaming the sons. For God's sake, do

529
00:33:56,220 --> 00:33:59,680
something. If you want to live in the future, if

530
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,560
you want to change your now, you have to start

531
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:10,460
from the past. Finally. The tone in this poem—

532
00:34:10,780 --> 00:34:13,660
like the father is trying to convince the children—

533
00:34:13,660 --> 00:34:18,900
as if this—the first time that I told, he told—

534
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,760
he's telling his children about this land. It's

535
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,860
like a surprising thing, and the children are not

536
00:34:27,860 --> 00:34:31,520
interested in listening to their father. And

537
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,280
there's something else that—Wait a minute, just I

538
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,640
think, no, I think there is an indication that

539
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,380
he's been doing this for years and years, again

540
00:34:39,380 --> 00:34:42,240
and again and again. This is not the first time.

541
00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:46,120
So they're either bored, fed up, or probably this

542
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,960
is what every time they say. I'm sorry, we're

543
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,240
running out of time, and I have to go for the adab,

544
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,280
but we can continue the discussion online.

545
00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:01,350
Told you. So the second poem is this—again, a

546
00:35:01,350 --> 00:35:05,010
fascinating poem by an Israeli poet named Yehuda

547
00:35:05,010 --> 00:35:07,290
Mikhai. Yehuda Mikhai is like Mahmoud Darwish for

548
00:35:07,290 --> 00:35:12,330
us Palestinians. He is the prince of poets. Last

549
00:35:12,330 --> 00:35:16,270
class, I gave you some time to write a reflection

550
00:35:16,270 --> 00:35:20,090
on this poem. Some of you spent a lot of time

551
00:35:20,090 --> 00:35:22,810
trying to prove who the poet is. I don't care. We

552
00:35:22,810 --> 00:35:25,210
usually care about—because remember, there will be

553
00:35:25,210 --> 00:35:28,340
an unseen poem before your final exam. There are

554
00:35:28,340 --> 00:35:30,540
steps to do. You look at the form, and the sounds,

555
00:35:30,660 --> 00:35:34,100
and the language, and the poeticality of the text

556
00:35:34,100 --> 00:35:37,700
because of speech, and try to bring together how

557
00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:41,220
many of these or all of these can contribute to

558
00:35:41,220 --> 00:35:45,620
enforcing a particular theme or a particular idea.

559
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,500
So the shape of the poem is interesting. There is

560
00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:52,300
space here, space here, like three stanzas.

561
00:35:58,060 --> 00:36:01,200
It says—the title is—"Sometimes on a roof in the

562
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:06,620
old city of Jerusalem"—on a roof in the old city

563
00:36:06,620 --> 00:36:11,880
laundry hanging in the late afternoon sunlight—

564
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:17,520
white—the white sheet of a woman who is my enemy—

565
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:23,380
the towel of a man who is my enemy—to wipe off the

566
00:36:23,380 --> 00:36:28,760
sweat of his brow—in the sky of the old city, a

567
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:35,300
kite at the other end of the string—a child I

568
00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:40,020
can't see because of the wall—we have put up many

569
00:36:40,020 --> 00:36:45,000
flags—they have put up many flags to make us think

570
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,390
they are happy—to make them think they are happy.

571
00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:54,650
What a beautiful, fascinating poem. It's beautiful

572
00:36:54,650 --> 00:36:58,810
in many ways, but then again, I'll comment at the

573
00:36:58,810 --> 00:37:03,810
end how this is again doing damage to Palestine,

574
00:37:03,950 --> 00:37:08,790
to Palestinians. So if you look at the shape first

575
00:37:08,790 --> 00:37:11,250
and foremost, considering that this is like three

576
00:37:11,250 --> 00:37:14,850
stanzas, probably the third stanza being some kind

577
00:37:14,850 --> 00:37:18,170
of a wall. And even the third stanza itself

578
00:37:18,170 --> 00:37:22,430
creates some kind of walls.

579
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:29,290
Nice. Okay.

580
00:37:37,150 --> 00:37:43,830
So the speaker is—again, is an "I." "I can't see." How

581
00:37:43,830 --> 00:37:49,150
many "I"s do we have? One. And then "my," yes. "My

582
00:37:49,150 --> 00:37:53,130
enemy," "my enemy." "His." So there's the difference

583
00:37:53,130 --> 00:38:00,690
between "we" and "they"—the others—Palestinians.

584
00:38:01,730 --> 00:38:04,820
Palestinians. Again, I find the simplicity of the

585
00:38:04,820 --> 00:38:09,540
poem to be profound, fascinating, shakes people.

586
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,460
It says that we are all human, basically doing the

587
00:38:12,460 --> 00:38:16,460
same thing. Those people are humans. But

588
00:38:16,460 --> 00:38:19,980
dangerously, there are many things lying beneath,

589
00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:25,260
if we can read between the lines. So the laundry

590
00:38:25,260 --> 00:38:28,980
in the late afternoon here, on a roof in the old

591
00:38:28,980 --> 00:38:34,090
city—on a roof in the old city, laundry hanging in

592
00:38:34,090 --> 00:38:38,290
the afternoon—that's

593
00:38:38,290 --> 00:38:46,210
laundry—what

594
00:38:46,210 --> 00:38:49,850
he sees is interesting—the white sheet—the sheet

595
00:38:49,850 --> 00:38:53,030
being white is interesting—the towel—the sweat—

596
00:38:53,030 --> 00:38:59,670
like vindication—but there are no people there; the

597
00:38:59,670 --> 00:39:04,440
people are just out of the frame. We see their

598
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:11,680
belongings, their things. If the man is on some

599
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:18,260
kind of a roof in Jerusalem, I don't know, on a

600
00:39:18,260 --> 00:39:21,440
recliner, probably smoking,

601
00:39:23,140 --> 00:39:27,480
he

602
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:34,360
says—he's suggesting that there is what? There is

603
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,900
what here? There is a wall, and the wall is

604
00:39:38,900 --> 00:39:48,100
separating him and everything else. So what does he

605
00:39:48,100 --> 00:39:53,640
see? He sees the laundry—if assuming this is

606
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:58,660
summer—he sees the towel. He sees the sheets, the

607
00:39:58,660 --> 00:40:00,520
white sheets, probably what? Palestinian

608
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:05,620
surrendering? Defeat? And interestingly, he sees

609
00:40:05,620 --> 00:40:11,180
something beautiful, which is what? A kite. Does

610
00:40:11,180 --> 00:40:17,340
he see the child? At the other end of this, he

611
00:40:17,340 --> 00:40:22,940
just assumes that this is what? This is a child

612
00:40:22,940 --> 00:40:25,280
and this is a kite. Yeah, I can draw a kite.

613
00:40:32,420 --> 00:40:37,460
Innocence, freedom, normal life, creating a normal

614
00:40:37,460 --> 00:40:40,820
life. It's like, "See, Palestinians can fly kites,

615
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:42,100
everything is fine."

616
00:40:44,860 --> 00:40:48,480
Thank you very much. But again, he can't see, but

617
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,420
he's certain that this is a child, basically

618
00:40:51,420 --> 00:40:55,280
because mostly it's kids who—who fly—look at this

619
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:59,880
kite—child—and then how interestingly he builds a

620
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:03,600
wall himself in words. So there is the physical

621
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,740
wall. There are many walls in Jerusalem; some of

622
00:41:05,740 --> 00:41:07,640
them are very historical, very ancient; some of them

623
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:13,700
Israel built. It's not like, "Ah, there's a wall here;

624
00:41:13,700 --> 00:41:16,100
we can't see each other; we can't communicate; we

625
00:41:16,100 --> 00:41:19,180
can't speak." And this is again part of how

626
00:41:19,180 --> 00:41:24,720
alternative facts are offered. Israel caused this.

627
00:41:24,860 --> 00:41:28,160
Israel built the wall. And this is very dangerous

628
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,180
because this presents—liberal Zionists always do

629
00:41:31,180 --> 00:41:35,420
this—presents—he presents people as equal,

630
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,820
equally to blame for what's going on. There's a

631
00:41:39,820 --> 00:41:42,200
wall; Palestinians are to blame; Israelis are to

632
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,410
blame. He himself is building a psychological

633
00:41:46,410 --> 00:41:50,8

667
00:43:56,630 --> 00:43:59,590
Why I say this is a very beautiful poem from a

668
00:43:59,590 --> 00:44:01,770
poetic, artistic point of view. Fascinating.

669
00:44:01,890 --> 00:44:04,330
Amazing. And again, I find this very, very

670
00:44:04,330 --> 00:44:07,010
interesting how some of you attributed this poem

671
00:44:07,010 --> 00:44:11,720
to a Palestinian poet. I find if you wrote this in

672
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:14,040
your reflection, I'm not going to deduct marks

673
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,340
because this is what the poem is supposed to do.

674
00:44:18,150 --> 00:44:20,630
You think that this is a Palestinian poem, and you do.

675
00:44:21,170 --> 00:44:25,270
In one of my experiments, of many experiments I do

676
00:44:25,270 --> 00:44:29,550
with my students, I had a class of 40, and I

677
00:44:29,550 --> 00:44:32,330
divided them into two parts, and I asked the first

678
00:44:32,330 --> 00:44:37,350
group to write me a reflection on this poem. And I

679
00:44:37,350 --> 00:44:40,050
didn't say who the poet is. It was just a text.

680
00:44:40,630 --> 00:44:42,570
And the other group I said, "Israeli poet, Yehuda

681
00:44:42,570 --> 00:44:49,100
Amichai." So the students who knew that

682
00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:50,980
this is an Israeli poet were like trashing the

683
00:44:50,980 --> 00:44:52,860
poem in a way, like there's no genuine

684
00:44:52,860 --> 00:44:55,540
relationship here, there's an artificiality; he's

685
00:44:55,540 --> 00:44:58,120
creating this, you know, something like this. But

686
00:44:58,120 --> 00:44:59,620
the students who didn't know that this is an

687
00:44:59,620 --> 00:45:02,300
Israeli poet said that this could be Mahmoud

688
00:45:02,300 --> 00:45:04,640
Darwish, Tamim al-Barghouti, Samiha al-Qasim, or

689
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:09,980
other Palestinian poets. This is cute, but at the

690
00:45:09,980 --> 00:45:13,320
same time, from an ideological point of view, this

691
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:17,270
is dangerous. Because it presents the Israeli

692
00:45:17,270 --> 00:45:23,290
occupation as innocent, you know, the victim and

693
00:45:23,290 --> 00:45:27,710
the victim. Never. Never bring the occupied and

694
00:45:27,710 --> 00:45:30,570
the occupier, the colonized and the colonizer, the

695
00:45:30,570 --> 00:45:32,870
oppressed and the oppressor on the same scale.

696
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:35,070
That's exactly what made us suppose that it

697
00:45:35,070 --> 00:45:37,690
couldn't be Palestinian literature. Palestinian

698
00:45:37,690 --> 00:45:40,810
literature has its own features. And one thing it

699
00:45:40,810 --> 00:45:42,570
never does is equate them.

700
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,000
But I'm not... okay, okay. I find this interesting if

701
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,060
you said this; that's that's really good thinking.

702
00:45:51,060 --> 00:45:55,180
But at the same time, we don't assume that oh, like

703
00:45:55,180 --> 00:45:58,980
there are very clear-cut differences between

704
00:45:58,980 --> 00:46:04,240
Israeli and Palestinian poetry. In another thing, I'll

705
00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:06,440
conclude with this and see what you

706
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,080
have to say. The other thing I found very

707
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,280
interesting; I did some research on how, that was

708
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:17,640
in my MA, how Palestinian and Israeli poets

709
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,140
represented Jerusalem, the representation of

710
00:46:20,140 --> 00:46:22,340
Jerusalem in Israeli and Palestinian poets, and I

711
00:46:22,340 --> 00:46:25,120
found so many striking similarities. But there

712
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,640
were also some profound differences. Generally,

713
00:46:27,820 --> 00:46:32,320
Palestinians are outsiders. They don't have access

714
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,020
to the city. And if they do, it's under heavy

715
00:46:36,020 --> 00:46:40,420
military presence. We've seen this with Tamim. And

716
00:46:40,420 --> 00:46:44,920
the Israelis, or the Jews, are insiders.

717
00:46:45,580 --> 00:46:49,340
They have access to roam freely, to do whatever

718
00:46:49,340 --> 00:46:54,460
they want, to kill even, to destroy, to demolish.

719
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,020
Palestinians are outsiders; they don't have

720
00:46:58,020 --> 00:47:00,580
access, even Palestinians living in Jerusalem. We

721
00:47:00,580 --> 00:47:06,360
see how Israel prevents even young women, young

722
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:11,240
men from worshipping at Al-Aqsa Mosque for months

723
00:47:11,240 --> 00:47:14,860
and months. You're not allowed; you're just five

724
00:47:14,860 --> 00:47:16,980
minutes away from Al-Aqsa Mosque and you're not

725
00:47:16,980 --> 00:47:21,060
allowed to worship. So even... I'm not saying I am,

726
00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:24,820
how many of you have been to Jerusalem? One, two,

727
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,760
three. You just have three lucky people here. We

728
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,860
are about 60 or 70. That's like very, very few.

729
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:33,960
And we are here in Gaza. But there are people in

730
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,520
the West Bank who can't get to Jerusalem. There are

731
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,020
people in Jerusalem who can't get to Jerusalem

732
00:47:38,020 --> 00:47:41,220
because of the occupation, first and foremost. The

733
00:47:41,220 --> 00:47:47,700
first evil, the root of all evils. So Palestinians

734
00:47:47,700 --> 00:47:52,250
who are outsiders, Jerusalem means something else

735
00:47:52,250 --> 00:47:54,250
to them. For the Israelis, I noticed in their

736
00:47:54,250 --> 00:47:57,150
poetry, there's another poem where the Israeli

737
00:47:57,150 --> 00:48:00,830
poet gets inside a shop and he is fascinated by

738
00:48:00,830 --> 00:48:04,470
what? By the threads and the buttons, you know,

739
00:48:04,730 --> 00:48:07,930
and these tiny little things, concrete things.

740
00:48:08,740 --> 00:48:11,800
This is what fascinates him. But

741
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:13,900
you, those people who went to Jerusalem, when you

742
00:48:13,900 --> 00:48:16,840
go there, it's like a spiritual journey; it's

743
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,100
different. It's this metaphor; it's like a dream,

744
00:48:20,500 --> 00:48:23,160
a vision, a dream coming true finally after years

745
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,280
and years. I know you go there also for the ka'ak,

746
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:30,160
but also, and you take pictures, right?

747
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:32,080
And you're proud of this; you love this. But you

748
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,440
go, you pray. It's like some kind of a journey,

749
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,250
again, I say the journey of initiation. You feel

750
00:48:39,250 --> 00:48:41,570
this. By the way, look this up; there's something

751
00:48:41,570 --> 00:48:45,590
called Jerusalem Syndrome. Many people talk about

752
00:48:45,590 --> 00:48:47,830
this; people lose their minds when they go to

753
00:48:47,830 --> 00:48:52,750
Jerusalem. Look it up; it's very interesting. So it

754
00:48:52,750 --> 00:48:55,890
means a lot. Jerusalem is not the buildings, the

755
00:48:55,890 --> 00:49:00,590
walls. It's also this virtual connection we

756
00:49:00,590 --> 00:49:04,290
have with our parents, grandparents, great-great-

757
00:49:04,290 --> 00:49:07,330
grandparents with the land. Not that

758
00:49:07,330 --> 00:49:10,150
we like any other piece of Palestine less, but we

759
00:49:10,150 --> 00:49:13,490
like Jerusalem more. It's our capital, not because

760
00:49:13,490 --> 00:49:16,610
of only its religious value, because for

761
00:49:16,610 --> 00:49:18,970
Palestinian Christians, Palestinian Muslims, it's

762
00:49:18,970 --> 00:49:21,610
the same. Not also that we deny the existence of

763
00:49:21,610 --> 00:49:24,750
Jewish connections to the land. We just say that

764
00:49:24,750 --> 00:49:28,990
this is Palestinian land. Jews, Christians,

765
00:49:29,230 --> 00:49:32,650
Muslims have lived and coexisted peacefully, and you'll

766
00:49:32,650 --> 00:49:37,060
find this in history. So the outsiders,

767
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,200
Palestinians, they look at this beautiful

768
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:45,460
spiritual, poetic aspect of Jerusalem. Look at Tamim.

769
00:49:45,900 --> 00:49:46,820
That's why Tamim says,

770
00:49:57,980 --> 00:50:04,590
This is what they see. Those who live, the

771
00:50:04,590 --> 00:50:06,950
occupiers, the intruders, the aliens who live in

772
00:50:06,950 --> 00:50:11,730
Jerusalem, they just think of a paint job, how to

773
00:50:11,730 --> 00:50:16,150
spend a vacation here or there, just want to take

774
00:50:16,150 --> 00:50:19,750
pictures with a street vendor selling falafel.

775
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,940
Not saying that all of them don't, but basically.

776
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,560
And another interesting thing; many of those

777
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,900
poets, Israeli poets, look at Jerusalem as a city,

778
00:50:32,020 --> 00:50:34,520
like people in London and Paris look at London and

779
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,460
Paris respectively, as a source, as a place of

780
00:50:37,460 --> 00:50:39,660
sin. The city is a place of sin and corruption,

781
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:45,400
and vices. Not us. We see... and that's... and for us also,

782
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:48,900
Palestinians... remember, Palestinians... for us,

783
00:50:48,900 --> 00:50:52,360
Jerusalem brings us together, unites us. That's why

784
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:56,220
most Palestinian, almost all Palestinian poems

785
00:50:56,220 --> 00:50:59,140
about Jerusalem bring Christians and Muslims

786
00:50:59,140 --> 00:51:05,820
together. Interesting. That's why Tamim again says

787
00:51:05,820 --> 00:51:14,440
there are two Jerusalems: ours and theirs.  Yeah,

788
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:19,300
so what does this man see in Jerusalem? The

789
00:51:19,300 --> 00:51:24,700
laundry. The laundry. The laundry. You go to

790
00:51:24,700 --> 00:51:27,740
Jerusalem to look at people's laundry. Okay, thank

791
00:51:27,740 --> 00:51:34,100
you. The laundry, the sheets, the towels, the white

792
00:51:34,100 --> 00:51:34,940
sheets, the towels.

793
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,120
Okay, I'm raising questions here, and I'll give you

794
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:46,080
five minutes to say what you have to say. How does

795
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:47,880
the poem represent Jerusalem? Do you like that?

796
00:51:48,900 --> 00:51:52,180
Does the poem represent Jerusalem as it should be, as

797
00:51:52,180 --> 00:51:56,380
a Palestinian would do? Again, not that there are

798
00:51:56,380 --> 00:52:00,300
very clear-cut differences. There are several

799
00:52:00,300 --> 00:52:04,440
walls in the poem. Discuss several walls, not only

800
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:08,340
the physical one. Comment on the poem's lack of

801
00:52:08,340 --> 00:52:10,880
dialogue. And again, where are the Palestinians?

802
00:52:12,460 --> 00:52:15,360
So in brief, while this is a beautiful poem from

803
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,820
an aesthetic perspective, this is a horrible,

804
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:23,830
horrible poem because it is a tool of further

805
00:52:23,830 --> 00:52:29,030
demonizing Palestinians, further dehumanizing

806
00:52:29,030 --> 00:52:31,410
Palestinians, and presenting Palestinians as

807
00:52:31,410 --> 00:52:38,370
uncivilized, as the enemy. The woman

808
00:52:38,370 --> 00:52:42,730
is the enemy. The man, just for existing, just for

809
00:52:42,730 --> 00:52:46,110
being there, for being a Palestinian, is labeled the

810
00:52:46,110 --> 00:52:48,530
enemy. However, listen, because this man was also

811
00:52:48,530 --> 00:52:51,970
critical of what Israel, the occupation, did; some of

812
00:52:51,970 --> 00:52:55,430
what the occupation did. Many would take this as an

813
00:52:55,430 --> 00:52:58,450
ironic thing when he says the man that is my enemy,

814
00:52:58,450 --> 00:53:00,610
the woman that is my enemy.  Would take this as an

815
00:53:00,610 --> 00:53:04,270
ironic statement, being critical of Israel and Israeli

816
00:53:04,270 --> 00:53:07,950
policy. You could also look into that. Please say

817
00:53:07,950 --> 00:53:11,530
something, please.

818
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:13,960
Okay, the thing is that when we were given this

819
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,240
poem without an author or without a poet, we tried

820
00:53:17,240 --> 00:53:20,660
to look at it from the perspective of an Israeli who is

821
00:53:20,660 --> 00:53:23,380
not, I don't want to say pro-Palestinian, but I

822
00:53:23,380 --> 00:53:26,740
would just say that a regular human being, okay?

823
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:31,140
Like, yes, I am a Jew, but I do not practice or I

824
00:53:31,140 --> 00:53:33,800
do not support all these things. So this is why I,

825
00:53:34,380 --> 00:53:36,560
we really, in our group, we really thought that

826
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:40,300
this could be either Palestinian. Okay, I see that.

827
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,100
I see your point. More, please.

828
00:53:48,420 --> 00:53:55,960
If you

829
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:59,100
take this ironically, in a sense,

830
00:54:02,330 --> 00:54:06,310
he criticizes the wall. He seems to be saying the

831
00:54:06,310 --> 00:54:09,610
wall is not good because it, you know, it

832
00:54:09,610 --> 00:54:12,390
dehumanizes. But he himself is actually building

833
00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:15,110
two walls. The physical wall, there's the physical

834
00:54:15,110 --> 00:54:17,610
wall in Jerusalem; there is the physical wall in

835
00:54:17,610 --> 00:54:20,730
the poem; and there is also the metaphorical wall

836
00:54:20,730 --> 00:54:23,050
he's building by alienating Palestinians.

837
00:54:29,210 --> 00:54:30,270
True, you're right.

838
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,640
In reality, on the ground in the West Bank, there is

839
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:41,720
no way for a two-state solution because Israel has...

840
00:54:41,720 --> 00:54:46,020
you know, it's not about that; it's not about that;

841
00:54:46,020 --> 00:54:48,400
it's also about the reality on the ground in

842
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,940
the West Bank. If you if you have a look at

843
00:54:50,940 --> 00:54:55,080
the map, Palestinians live in cantons, in what's the

844
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,520
word... like in isolated ghettos, like in South

845
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,450
Africa. So even if you want to move from one

846
00:55:01,450 --> 00:55:04,910
village to the other, you need permission, and you

847
00:55:04,910 --> 00:55:09,130
need to go through checkpoints. There are roads for Jews only.

848
00:55:09,470 --> 00:55:11,590
There are roads Palestinians, non-Jews, are not

849
00:55:11,590 --> 00:55:16,350
allowed to take, etc. So on the ground, Israel has

850
00:55:16,350 --> 00:55:20,740
made it impossible. Israel is selling this. But

851
00:55:20,740 --> 00:55:22,680
this is politics; I don't want to get into

852
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,600
politics, whether you like a one-state solution where

853
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:29,240
everybody is equal, one man or woman, one vote,

854
00:55:29,860 --> 00:55:32,080
which Israel rejects categorically.

855
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:48,200
Please. Where is

856
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:53,340
your indication in the poem? You're saying, I

857
00:55:53,340 --> 00:55:56

889
00:58:16,100 --> 00:58:20,400
doing the laundry? I think we should, you know,

890
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,760
since Paris time for them is like only a

891
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:26,060
humanitarian thing. It's not like, and those

892
00:58:26,060 --> 00:58:28,460
liberal Zionists are very dangerous because they

893
00:58:28,460 --> 00:58:31,490
don't oppose the occupation per se. They don't

894
00:58:31,490 --> 00:58:33,770
call for the end of the occupation. They don't

895
00:58:33,770 --> 00:58:36,930
call for complete rights for Palestinians. They

896
00:58:36,930 --> 00:58:39,770
just want a muted occupation, an occupation that

897
00:58:39,770 --> 00:58:42,550
would kill Palestinians, not by massacring and

898
00:58:42,550 --> 00:58:46,050
bombing them, but by probably starving them,

899
00:58:46,270 --> 00:58:51,310
besieging them, you know, or by, or if you kill

900
00:58:51,310 --> 00:58:54,370
them, kill them off camera, off stage. Because

901
00:58:54,370 --> 00:58:58,690
you're making us look bad in the West. One, one,

902
00:58:58,970 --> 00:59:00,550
like you have 30 seconds.

903
00:59:20,730 --> 00:59:24,550
Thank you, yeah, that's a very smart thing. He's

904
00:59:24,550 --> 00:59:27,530
on a roof, he's up above, he's also detached, this

905
00:59:27,530 --> 00:59:28,090
could be one

906
00:59:33,630 --> 00:59:35,890
Strategically, you see, you go to the West Bank, all

907
00:59:35,890 --> 00:59:39,310
the hilltops and high areas have been even

908
00:59:39,310 --> 00:59:43,430
Jerusalem, West Bank, Nablus, El Khalil, they were

909
00:59:43,430 --> 00:59:46,070
taken, uh, brief, brief. The first time I read

910
00:59:46,070 --> 00:59:48,830
this book, I found it's a Palestinian book and it's

911
00:59:48,830 --> 00:59:51,470
very painful because this man, like, look at the

912
00:59:51,470 --> 00:59:53,790
trivial things that deserve to be *our* laundering,

913
00:59:53,790 --> 00:59:56,670
not *their* laundering, and the walls, he means by the

914
00:59:56,670 --> 00:59:59,550
wall, that restriction, maybe the UN put, put it

915
00:59:59,550 --> 01:00:03,390
in us, yes, put in us to let it. Okay, so you're

916
01:00:03,390 --> 01:00:06,110
taking this as if this is a Palestinian poet. But

917
01:00:06,110 --> 01:00:08,770
yeah, now we know that this is not a Palestinian

918
01:00:08,770 --> 01:00:10,750
poet. Somebody raised their hand.

919
01:00:15,330 --> 01:00:20,830
The text

920
01:00:20,830 --> 01:00:24,470
says they're on a roof in the old city. What's

921
01:00:24,470 --> 01:00:27,690
that? Say again? The poem clearly says on a roof,

922
01:00:28,450 --> 01:00:32,010
positioning the poet on a higher place.

923
01:00:37,410 --> 01:00:40,810
The whole tone of the poem sounds to me as a

924
01:00:40,810 --> 01:00:44,790
condescending person who's trying to prove that he

925
01:00:44,790 --> 01:00:48,210
thinks equally of the other side, although he's

926
01:00:48,210 --> 01:00:50,710
clearly condescending. I think that they are

927
01:00:50,710 --> 01:00:53,210
humans, oh look, they're humans, they have

928
01:00:53,210 --> 01:00:59,310
laundry, look, somebody is flying a kite. Briefly.

929
01:01:08,410 --> 01:01:12,710
But it doesn't

930
01:01:12,710 --> 01:01:16,030
mention who built the wall, who is erecting the

931
01:01:16,030 --> 01:01:18,390
walls, the physical walls, the occupation being

932
01:01:18,390 --> 01:01:23,070
the first important wall. Anyway, I'll post this

933
01:01:23,070 --> 01:01:26,070
poem on our Facebook group. You can, if you have

934
01:01:26,070 --> 01:01:29,170
more points, more things to write, you're welcome.

935
01:01:29,630 --> 01:01:31,450
Thank you very much, ladies, and see you inshallah

936
01:01:31,450 --> 01:01:31,690
soon.